1984 quote

page 305 (penguin books edition)

This quote comes after Julia and Winston had gone into the Room 101. They both say that they betrayed each other and Julia explain that “sometimes they threaten you with something you can’t stand up to and tell them to do it to somebody else”. She then says “And perhaps you might pretend, afterwards, that it was only a trick and that you just said it to make them stop and didn’t really mean it. But that isn’t true. At the time when it happens you do mean it. You think there’s no other way of saving yourself and you’re quite ready to save yourself that way. You want it to happen to the other person. You don’t give a damn what they suffer. All you care about is yourself.” (Orwell 305) Throughout this novel Winston doesn't seem to have many sincere relationship like the one he has with Julia. This being said, their relationship is illegal, which is why the Party is trying to make them stop this relationship and only be committed to the Party.This quote represent the mutual betrayal between Julia and Winston, that been psychologically manipulated by the Party. This quote proves that physical pain or fear can overpower the love and loyalty in the other person. In the end this quote reveals how the Party tempted to have the power over everything, even loyalty and love.

This was a really good quote to choose! As you said, it shows that pain and fear overpower love and loyalty. It feel like it is a perfect example of how the Party turns people against each other, another example being the Spies (children) who expose their parents. It's sad that Winston and Julia went from loving each other to wishing they were dead... It demonstrates that the Party have complete control over not only the thoughts, but also the emotions of its subjects. It's scary because it makes you think what you would have done had you been in Winston's or Julia's position - the outcome would probably have been the same. Winston and Julia were truly helpless to the torture that the Party put them through, and I think this quote show the pinnacle of that helplessness: neither of them were able to resist betraying the other. Personally, this quote made me vulnerable...

I totally agree with both of you - it really makes me wonder what I would do under the same circumstances. 

Even though love is one of the strongest emotions, the novel shows us that the power and the influence of the Party is much stronger than love. Throughout the novel Winston and Julia become very close and we have the impression that they are very much in love with each other. However, the Party is able to manipulate them so that they turn against each other. In addition, Winston always felt that the Party could control everything but your thoughts. However, this too changes towards the end of the novel when Winston and Julia both agree that they meant what they said when they betrayed the love they had for each other. Thus, leaving us to believe that the Party controls your thought as well.

There are some really great analyses going on in this thread! I love it! Keep it up everyone!

This quote - and the whole part where Winston is being tortured, really - makes me question the validity or usefulness of torture methods in today's world. How useful is it to make people not only confess, but potentially actually [i]believe[i] they commit certain crimes? A confession does not equal truth, yet our justice system holds confessions in the highest regards. If memories and beliefs can be manipulated, what can we base ourselves on to determine things like guilt in a court of law?

Hey Mag, great analysis (I agree with all the other commenters as well). This quote, to me anyways, is one of the more relevant quotes to North Americans in the book. While we can at least claim that our government has never practiced most of the other atrocities committed in the novel to the extent that INGSOC has, we can not claim that our government is innocent when it comes to torture. Quotes like this one, in which we see people's morals and dedication to the truth thrown because of pain, should make us question our (our referring to the Canadian supported US government) own use of torture and our application of information gathered with so called 'enhanced interrogation'.

Hi Mag! I really enjoyed your passage analysis because it because it was something I missed upon first reading but really enjoyed once you shared it. It really demonstrates the fear Winston feels along with everyone else towards room 10 and the thought police as a whole.The fact that they are able to turn two people against each other shows the extent of their power. Winston and Julia had previously stated that they loved each other and really loyal initially, but even they can't resist the torture inflicted on them by big brother. This conveys how the party can control virtually everything that would make us human. The individualism is stripped away from everyone and replace by a fake sense of unity driven by the need to be identical and orthodox.